1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

5.13b3 feedback

Discussion in 'Development Area' started by ping, Feb 7, 2018.

  1. ping

    ping Active Member
    Staff Member SysOp Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,363
    Likes Received:
    490
    Hello, please utilise this thread for any feedback you have with vzk's version of VF. Write constructively about bugs, suggestions, feedback, things you like/dont like, etc. All information will be forwarded to vzk and quji.

    The map is already on the funbot under the name "34gvvwerevrer3434b23v423v43.w3x". Alternatively, you can download the map and test it locally here: https://www.epicwar.com/maps/279446/

    Changelog: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/244925092021272577/410761535007490058/changes1.png

    REMEMBER this is an alpha version. Everything present in the game thus far may or may not be in the final version.
     
    Waterwalker007 likes this.
  2. Pixelstorm

    Pixelstorm Hostbot Admin
    VFG Members Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Messages:
    546
    Likes Received:
    100
    Without playing I can say, that I dislike the vamp chosen ingame system, because now premade vamp partners can't for sure vamp together. Aswell as this would mean that people who share the same ip can now play in different teams without anyone noticing it or being able to do sth against it (I know that the latter can easily be achieved by vpn aswell, but many others don't). Other than that I would rather not play at all than being forced to vamp, if I don't want to. Guess if no one wants to vamp the game will just force two players to vamp?!

    Edit: This system only works for games where it's more desirable to play the smaller populated side, e.g. Troll vs Elves. I think vf is not suited for this system at all.
     
    Pedram likes this.
  3. Juke

    Juke The Monkey Chief
    Staff Member Shaman VFG Members + Donator +

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2016
    Messages:
    648
    Likes Received:
    622
    Pros

    +Afkers get teleported to pool

    Cons

    -Level Exchange. (2k wood for 1 slayer level) It will become a new Vest.

    -Sphere's price dropped to 400g and it's available since the start. It's very easy to gather 400g before 10min. Very overpowered.

    -Zero base changes. I was expecting atleast some kind of map changes.

    -Choosing system at the start. People can do ghosting very easily. Can't be sure who your teammate is incase you are playing with a friend and want to play as vampire.

    -A lot of items are cheaper. Boots 100->80. Rod 100->50. Fel 75->45. No Urn. A lot of items are made cheaper and now vampires don't even have to buy urn. It adds up A LOT.

    Neutral

    Amethysts regen rate is higher than Sapphires. Amethyst 25hp/s. Sapphire 20hp/s. Why?

    I was 18min in-game and I noticed that Demonic Gate was selling Hellfire and Gauntlets already. Is this a bug or are those items available that early?

    Is there anything done to human multirepairing or those kind of things?

    Cyclone is more expensive. 2->4. If it's that, I think it should last 6 seconds instead of 5.

    What's the purpose of wood dropping? Getting the vampire upgrades? Doesn't passive urn give wood anymore?


    I only did a quick testing but there are some things I noticed.
     
    Adawg and Waterwalker007 like this.
  4. NaturalCauzes

    NaturalCauzes The Fallen Angel
    Guardians Legend Shaman SysOp VFG Members Moderator Champion

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2014
    Messages:
    2,676
    Likes Received:
    1,287
    Felbeast always was 45gold. Someone doesn't play vamp much ;D

    Juke: My bad. Didn't check the facts before posting. :p
     
    #4 NaturalCauzes, Feb 7, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2018
  5. Master

    Master The Reaper
    Legend Champion

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2015
    Messages:
    837
    Likes Received:
    448
    I played as vamp and here's my list:

    Bugs:
    -Chain bugged at level 5 (level 5 spell), it didn't bounce on other units, worked normally after and before level 5
    -Demonic gate opens at minute 17, with gaunlets and hellfires, instead of 25
    -Portal bug is still there ( humans can see which portal the vampire enables).
    -After killing a human, the base stays there with no black buildings, only the workers dissapear, you can still hit them normally and get gold but no experience.
    Edit: Here's more:
    -Lumber bundles give 1000 wood to the vampire
    -Recipe list opens at 7? instead of 15( 7 or 8)
    -Underworld can be researches at like before 15?
    -Infernals can be upgraded to frozen/corrupt before 24
    -Grave doesn't do anything
    -Heal doesn't bounce on units properly, it worked once then it broke, tried bouncing it from myself to units and from units to units, no bouncing

    Pros:
    -I like lumber leaks for some reason, they can help a player if he's been focused hard/lost his research center, it can be pretty useful
    -AFK players gets teleported to pool
    -Boots price and teleport reduces, which are good early game items imo, but I think staff is way too cheap now
    -The new vampire chain is nice, no cast time, almost instant chain, could maybe be too strong and needs nerfing though
    -Some nerfs to pooling

    Cons:
    -Ingame vote is useless and can ruin good games
    -Vampires reviving is total bs, makes it way too unbalanced, since humans can barely kill 1 of the decent vampires to be able to survive late game, which by the revive totally ruins it, this cannot be any good in any of the today's games, where it's mostly 2 decent vampires tryharding against a newbie lobby Although if done only before a certain minute early game then it's nice
    -Selling levels for wood, that is pretty op at any stage, considering how easy it is to overlevel with coins, but it does make sense in a point where vampires are much stronger aswell
    -I see no nerfs to ensare, a vampire and his units can still get massively ensared
    -Cyclone is kinda too expensive now, maybe 3 gold would be more fair?
    -Cancerous tactics can still be abused
    -Sphere waaaaaay too cheap, a good price imo would be 700g

    Neutral:
    -Passive wood/gold income instead of urn, dunno what to think about that, is probably too strong due to items getting even cheaper.

    Overall I think the vampires are getting too much, but still humans can be still cancerous depending on their playstyle, some changes were nice, some I didn't like much, they can be all be fixed though, will wait more!
    Source replay:
     

    Attached Files:

    #5 Master, Feb 7, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
    Waterwalker007 and Pedram like this.
  6. Sharp.

    Sharp. Furbolg Harvester
    Guardians VFG Members

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2014
    Messages:
    327
    Likes Received:
    98
    Bugs:
    -Grave does no damage.
    -Vampires can also collect the fallen wood bundle "1k worth of wood"
    -Rico buildings drops gold/wood upgrade
    -Chain: No delay cast time
    -As Vampire, healing yourself > your units, it sometimes doesn't bounce heals to them + does not bounce to infernal at all, unless specifically targeted (it would only be the vamp itself + infernals that get healed instead of infernals + fel if they were both injured).
    -Infernal HP's
    - "-bases" command doesn't work
    -Recipes + portals open too early


    Pros:
    -I like the addition to the new wood bundle, but should be implemented only to humans. No reason for vampires to obtain it as well, unless there is something valuable for vampires/strategically to get it.
    -I like how the AFK humans get sent to the dance pool since they may be waiting long for a game to start and happen to be away.
    -New strategy with vampires having a second life.
    -Brought back the wood > Gold!

    Cons:
    -Sphere is way too cheap.
    -Reduce price back of cyclone to 2g.
    -Cyclone bug has not been fixed yet./Haven't tested ensare range boost yet.
    -Killing vampires 4 times due to revive does seem a bit harsh. Maybe implementing a time frame where they have that revive and removing it once hit a "certain time."
    -Exchanging wood for levels does seem quite a bit overpowered. Tons of greed and advancements in a short amount of time.

    Suggestions:
    -Make infernals (frozen) have slow effect on-hit rather than just buildings

    Questions:
    -Implement a reduction in pooling?
    -Flags not working, no more claiming?
     
    Waterwalker007 likes this.
  7. Rugarus

    Rugarus Firespawn Deforester
    Legend + Donator + Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2016
    Messages:
    1,413
    Likes Received:
    816
    What I'd keep: auto urn income(no more need to teach new players why they need to buy urn) - as a result most items should not become cheaper. Teleport rod should stay 100g, 50 is far to cheap. Sphere should stay at least 700+ gold.

    Wood leaks should be 1k wood for humans, 1 wood for vampires would encourage the vampires to pick them up for RC upgrades.

    Buying slayer levels I think is a bad feature. Means humans don't have to pay attention to the slayer pit, also it's obvious cancerous players will abuse this pool each other and get a high level slayer with best at 10 mins.

    I'd scrap the auto chose system, reasons pixel stated.

    I'd rather the chain have a faster casting time but not instant. Furb detoing is a good human tactic, if you made cast time a bit faster would mean humans need to be even faster. But insta cast time removes that tactic.


    Things I'd like to see added before release:

    Felbeasts, infernals given an anti magic aura or simply trigger activated that when snared the effect is instantly removed.

    For vampires to avoid net spam, everytime a vampire is snared give the vampire a 15 second aura that prevents them from being snared/garlic or any other spell used on them.

    Have a permanent anti magic aura on vampires while in centre blighted area(no more teleporting with demo/sphere etc and getting snared)

    Give vampire RC armour aura that gives vampires a small armour bonus while within X distance of it.

    Taxing 50% pooling isn't going to solve the issue late game or even early game. (It's 36 minutes, someone loses their base and sends 150k wood and 300g, the other player will get half of that)

    Vampire revives?? Does that mean minis get revives as well? Either way very opposed to it.
     
  8. NaturalCauzes

    NaturalCauzes The Fallen Angel
    Guardians Legend Shaman SysOp VFG Members Moderator Champion

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2014
    Messages:
    2,676
    Likes Received:
    1,287
    Bugs
    Only played as Vampire so far.

    Top left summoning portal doesnt work
    Bloodlust on assassin doesn't work
    Gauntlets avaliable too early
    Demonic is available just before 25
    Red always has priority as vampire
    2 vampires no matter what so now you really can't play 1v6


    Pros

    No urn is alright i guess
    Revive is good for early game
    Sphere is cheaper

    Cons

    Everything is cheaper
    Revive is OP late game
    Sphere is way too cheap and im an avid supporter of cheaper sphere
    Vamps get full lumber upgs with 1 lumber pickup
    1750hp frenchies are going to wreck humans early
    Meteor is still useless
    Is this really worthy of 5.x+1, feels more like a 5.x.y
    Can't test probably with this shitty sped up bullshit.
     
    Waterwalker007 likes this.
  9. Pedram

    Pedram The Legend
    Staff Member Shaman VFG Members

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2014
    Messages:
    891
    Likes Received:
    394
    they don't
     
  10. Waterwalker007

    Waterwalker007 Lord Of The Sea
    Staff Member Shaman VFG Members Donator

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Messages:
    605
    Likes Received:
    436
    Just adding some human info, from my short test with rug and tru. I will edit/update this as I see more things.

    Bugs:
    Grave doesn't do any damage.
    You can make spires towers before anyone has Castle.
    Claiming a base seems off, I (red) could claim a base with a flag, teal's flag didn't have the same effect.
    Humans can buy frenchies/shades/meat carrier/assassin.
    Can have more than 1 blood tower.
    Dead human's buildings ARE greyed out on the MINI map (blacked out after death), however they are NOT greyed out on the MAIN map/screen, and they look as normal/colored/alive human buildings.
    Remains/Gauntlets show early.
    Command Center now makes Heavenly human guy, without castle. Also you can make an unlimited of them, compared to just 1.

    Pros:
    Finally a new vampirism fire map.
    AFK's human are moved to pool. +1, why not add it.
    Auto Urn is nice, no more spamming noobs "Buy Urn" sort of thing. But what about Urn's farsight?

    Neutral:
    Vampire's Extra life. I like this idea for early game only. Such as a noob partner goes for an early base, and gets ganked. I think it should only be 1 extra life total, and first vamp to die auto uses it, and only before 15 mins perhaps. After 12 or 15 mins it goes away.

    Cons / Suggestions:
    I don't think a lumber pickup is needed. It will make even more slayers blink in front of every building a vamp kills, hoping for a leak, which would increase of slayers annoying vamps. Might make people "No leak = deny" more.
    I don't think selling slayer levels is needed, and needs to be added carefully, if so.
    I don't like "Voting" to be human or vamp. Let the lobby decide that, that's what it's for. It also messes up with our first/second quick blink, imo.
    Sphere is so cheap, that I will have sweaty palms all game as human.
    No changes to Garlic. Early garlic is still OP.
    No changes to LO or ULO. Too cheap, or too much dmg.
    Cancer people still can use their ways. PathBlock/Garlic/Net/Harass frenchies/felhounds
    50% pooling will help, but it's not enough. Also I would love to see a dual/triple base/repair nerf.
    I think the map/base design could be changed up a bit. Some bases are too close, and share towers way too easily. Such as Bottom left Or mid right, southeast of slayer pool. Also a few new bases would be nice, and everyone would like to see.
    Would like to see another vampire model, or even change your vamp/human skin in game would be pretty cool. Based on games played/stats (doubt it), Or just 1 free click each game, to be something different. Could apply to Vamp,Slayers and humans.

    Summary:
    Very happy about a new map, but I think the focus should be more on fixing balance issues, instead of adding completely new features.
    I would love to see the Devs in discord/forums more, to ask others ideas/changes, to make VF a better map. Such as this thread ^^
     
    #10 Waterwalker007, Feb 8, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
    Pav4eto, Pedram and Sharp. like this.
  11. 1010.

    1010. Members
    Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2016
    Messages:
    200
    Likes Received:
    86
    Alright, finished testing 5.13
    #1: You can sell 1 level for 2k wood, this allows me to have 50k+ wood at minute 5. I sell all my levels before minute then i level up by 3-4 levels cause I am only level 1 and then I repeat.

    #2: Vamps can buy sphere at 12 every game since urn costs no gold and sphere costs only 400 gold.

    #3: If vamp picks up wood he can get every single upgrade in wood research, this means frenchies cant be stopped by even 5 wall towers. This is a bug obviously, but with wood amount lowered, it is still very easy to get armor and hp for your french. In fact they are so strong they can beat slayers in 1vs1.

    #4: Heal is bugged, does not bounce to all units and grave is not working.

    Nice job cracking map. On a more positive note, I like how the chain has no delay.
     
    #11 1010., Feb 8, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 8, 2018
    Pedram likes this.
  12. Envy.

    Envy. Basic Harvester
    VFG Members Donator

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2011
    Messages:
    188
    Likes Received:
    150
    Bugs:
    -Ingame notices of urn / minute marks shows up to early
    -Vamps get 1k+ from the wood drops
    -Gold drop is alot more rare?
    -You can buy minute mark items before the real minute mark
    -Grave doesn't work
    -Heal doesn't work correctly if units are placed in a weird position, they have to be stacked for it to bounce like it should
    -Outpost still doesn't work
    -Spawning tp is the old version of the tp (takes 5 seconds)
    -Some text fonts are spaced out, example upgrade damage from RC
    -Spawning points for vampire are buggy


    Pros:
    -No urn thing is good imo, saves the newer players the hassle to buy it and is a good buff to vamp
    -The buffed movement speed on meteor is really nice
    -Vampire units working good
    -Shattering scaling is buffed
    -Cool animation when completing recepie




    Cons:
    -Cyclone nerf
    -Sphere is 400g, vamps can insta buy at 12 or earlier
    -The tp is too cheap
    -Selling levels for wood is unbalanced as fuck, slayers at level 1 get 3+ level at later stages of the game. Min 5k income from just selling levels. It's also extremely op in the early game if vamp leaks.
    -The reviving of the vampire is extremely unbalanced and removes the thrill of taking risks as vamp.
    -Unholy aura is unchanged and me and @1010. Have received it 3/3 times.
    -Damage aura is probably unchanged aswell since unholy is
    -The chaining is instantly, both a buff to vamps but removes a vital strategy from humans. I agree with it to be shorter than it currently is, but not instant.
    -No spell immune on felbeasts / infernals, people will still be able to use their slayer to make the game more unfair for vampires
    -Diminishing returns still not added. Diminishing returns example, vampire gets netted, the first net is 100% of the duration, the next net is 50% and the 3rd is either 10% or 0%. Same should apply to garlic. It is done like the chain buff that your human receives once chained.
    -No changes in bases, if this map goes unchanged choke bases will be extremely overpowered.
    -Minions can't send gold to main vamps, makes mini pretty much useless.
    -Cyclone "Bug" still not fixed, it is easy to avoid for humans. But should be fixed anyway.
    -Refresher CD is still starting at 75% (even tho the real cd doesn't change) should be fixed to avoid any confusion.
    -The voting part of the vamp is a good thing to start the games early, however it removes the chance of pre-made vamps playing together. An example, me and @1010. wants to play vamp, some dude with 0 games wants to play vamp aswell even tho we were planning to premade, then there is a chance that one of us gets human and the new guy (no offence to new people but you all know the fucking pain of playing with new players) gets vamp instead.
    -This might not be such a con, it's a game changer, but if the wood dropping stays, the games will be like old days, aka no leak. If you don't leak, you win. Simple.




    Neutral:
    -Overall, fun that the new map is near. However alot of these changes will break the game and will probably kill VF if released as it is right now.


    P.S My suggestion to @Rugarus & @vzk is to work together on VZKs map, fix all the issues that is stated above and change some balancing issues aswell as refresh the bases with some new looks.

    Reasoning behind that statement, rugarus has developed a new map from scratch, good, however VZKs map is more complete than rugarus version of the map is. If you guys worked together on this the development and release of the new map could be near march-april.




    EDIT 1:
    -The voting part of the vamp is a good thing to start the games early, however it removes the chance of pre-made vamps playing together. An example, me and @1010. wants to play vamp, some dude with 0 games wants to play vamp aswell even tho we were planning to premade, then there is a chance that one of us gets human and the new guy (no offence to new people but you all know the fucking pain of playing with new players) gets vamp instead.
    -This might not be such a con, it's a game changer, but if the wood dropping stays, the games will be like old days, aka no leak. If you don't leak, you win. Simple.
     
    #12 Envy., Feb 8, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
    Mitico and 1010. like this.
  13. vzk

    vzk Members
    Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2015
    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    48
    First of all, thanks for the feedbacks guys :)
    The timers and some items cost are done on purpose, the test version is speedup x2.
    The features will all mostly fit to each others, some of yours Cons are based on a counter of a Pro one.
    I did note your bugs on my git, gonna fix all soon.

    Remember, the suggestions have to be on the right forums not here, this place is for bugs only, as a bug tracker.
    The accepted suggestions will be done on 5.13b / 5.13c / 5.13d / 5.14 / etc
    Version 5.13a (current one) will be released as a reborn of VF since the last dev isn't with us anymore.
     
    Pedram, Mitico and Waterwalker007 like this.
  14. Nino28

    Nino28 Members
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    7
    Hello, everyone, I just played with Dragon the new map
    And the vamp can resurrect only 1 time
    Is that part of the update or is it a bug?

    You also want to tell him that with 10 blood you can kill vamp so have 2 demo